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miz


A good point Carlos, though the same is true for the US, of course.

In Mexico there are massacres like the one at Sandy Hook almost every day and many of them are only possible because the drug syndicates can buy guns legally in the US and smuggle them across the border. And those guns are being bought with the money Americans spend for the drugs the sydicates bring into the country.

So if American society would stop buying all kinds of illegal substances or change its drug laws in a responsible manner they would help their neighbours to the south quite a lot.

Why am I not optimistic?

Carlos

Many things must be done, including tighter gun control.

But staying in the European Guns topic, I can not help pointing out that if a society has a disease, other societies should help it.

If a person has alcoholism, I should not sell this person alcohol. I can't just dismiss the problem by saying "others will sell it to him if I don't, so I might as well sell it to him and make money".

European countries are seeing that there is a huge problem in the US with gun violence and death (for a variety of reasons), and should therefore, help in any way they can, which in my mind includes not selling us these weapons.

LemmusLemmus

Thank you, Andrew!

I've read through the chapter, but could not find the statement there, though the authors report that roughly 50% of variations in homicide *within the US* are explained by gun use (p. 113). Maybe I've overlooked something.

Martin

@Andrew:

My feeling is that there is also a very different perception of guns in both countries. In the US guns are part of the solution, in Germany they are part of the problem.

In the US guns seem to be ubiquitous and that creates a different mind-set in the people. Guns are there because there is a perceived problem that can be solved with them. Also, I got the impression that many believe that THEY are out there to get you. And you always have to be prepared for the time when THEY come!

And when in need of a solution for a problem people tend to look for the easiest solution. The more unstable a person is the more flexible he or she is in finding the problem: Jealousy? Bang! My boss is an ar**? Bang! No money? Bang! No one gives me respect? I'll show them!

In Germany guns are not an easy solution because they are really hard to come by. (At least when you are the common middle class guy without access to the right people.)
Our mind-set is different: Problem solving doesn't as easily involve guns. That doesn't mean we are less violent. But we usually do not think in terms of guns and that might lead to a lower killings rate.
And we usually do not believe that THEY are out there to get you.

And I would really appreciate if you keep THEM. We do not need THEM here.

Martin


Andrew

@ben: You're missing the point of the post. Amokläufer, while horrible, are irrelevant from a public-safety point of view. What's much more important is that ordinary, everyday crime is much less likely to involve a gun. Getting mugged is an unpleasant experience no matter how it occurs, but would you rather be mugged by three guys who threaten to beat you up (the typical European experience) and maybe show a knife, or one desperate, drug-addled person pointing a loaded pistol at you, one trigger pull away from killing you in seconds?

Martin

@ben

These will always be able to obtain their weapons of choice. The only way to stop them from using guns would be to stop producing them. But then they would find other means.

Martin

ben

Germany's "strict gun control" is a myth as Germany's own homegrown Amokläufer industry has taught us.

Andrew

@Lemmuslemmus: Gladly -- It's chapter 7 of this book. I think that's a link to the specific page, but the whole chapter 7 (and the book itself) is worth reading.

LemmusLemmus

" the fact that guns are more frequently used in these everyday crimes explains about 50% of the difference in the murder rate between Europe and the U.S."

Source, please.

Dan Richter

Thanks. I've been waiting for your comment on the Aurora shooting.

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