Delectable Stereotypes

Spotted at my favorite bakery, Cafe J-----, a few days ago:

They were in a big display with a several other petit fours with geometric decorations (no, not swastikas). I had to specifically ask for the 'Moor' and the 'Chinaman'. The woman who served me was, by the way, Turkish.

Anyway, ah done ate me one Negro and one Chinaman. They wuz dee-licious, and the Negro wuz full o' rum. Typical!

Previous coverage of German ethnic insensitivity here.

Comments

[Curtis]

@Anselmus:

(do - not does)

Aren't you aware that it's considered bad form to offer unsolicited grammar corrections on the internet? As self-appointed grammar police, one would expect you to police yourself before policing others:

"I'm sorry Curtis - what older lows might you be referring to?"

"I like the Karneval expanation."

That whole "beam in your eye" story - ever heard of it?

There are worthier opponents down in that Texas of Europe, Austria

What do Texas and Austria have to do with this blog entry and how does your thinly veiled insult of the two contribute intellectually to the discussion?

Pick your battles carefully though.

Good advice, if only you would take it.

[Anselmus]

Curtis,

"Instead of educating and edifying, this blog has now descended to new lows,"

I'm sorry Curtis - what older lows might you be referring to? I don't agree with everything Andrew posts - it's a blog, and not his course materials here. Take it in context. Would I have posted it that way? No. Would you? Perhaps not. Marek? Who knows. Yours to take and leave as you see fit. This isn't NDR here.

"and as is evident from some of the comments below, now attracts the type of readership interested in perpetuating inequality."

Thanks. Nice elide from one argument into an entirely different one, namely one that seeks to cast Andrew's entire readership into disrepute. For one, I don't feel spoken to by your allegation here.

"The contents of this blog entry does not support your claim."

(do - not does). Read in isolation, I suppose not. However, I read this blog in context, namely on the basis of past posts. So do you, since you comment here frequently. In that light, I have to assume you are very deliberately taking his entry out of context. Several German commentors here have backed this up.

I like the Karneval expanation. Karneval explains a remarkable amount of German foolishness at this time of year.

Good night. Your sentiments are noted. Pick your battles carefully though. There are worthier opponents down in that Texas of Europe, Austria, than this cheesing off about a silly blog entry here.

[Lutz]

@cuneiform
Cultural Imperialism? Haven’t heard about that for ages! Is it still a problem in U.S.?

[Lutz]

Lutz

There a valid standards on both sides of the ocean. That includes “do not kill”, “respect religious feelings”, “do not act in a racist way”, “do not beat your children” and so on.
On the other hand, the freedom of speech is a universal value. Sometimes that does not fit together (remember the cartoons about Mohammed?). I value the freedom of speech very high, Curtis rates anti-racism even higher. O.k. - his point of view.

For me the freedom of speech is not limited to objective criticism. It includes vile books and all kind of jokes, even about disabled Jews and black Muslims and queer bishops.

[Curtis]

@Lutz:

I read Curtis comments two times. I understand his point, but I feel uncomfortable. It looks as if he wants an excuse. If so, why doesn’t he say that clearly?

It is not for me to demand an apology. This is Andrew's blog and if he feels that he has made a mistake, then he should be allowed to apologize for it.

It took some time to find out what makes me feel uncomfortable. Curtis has the strong feeling that America’s rules should be valid all over the world.

This has nothing to do with American cultural imperialism and everything to do with common decency and respect. These are universal values, of which no country has a monopoly.

Furthermore, I've already stated on several occasions that my criticism is NOT aimed at the bakery, who may or may not be aware of the offensive nature of its products. My condemnation is aimed squarely at Andrew who purchased the racist product and who then later went on to denigrate a minority group with the usage of racist speech.

I find it unacceptable for an American professor, charged with the teaching of American values to the future law-givers and adjudicators of German society, to so carelessly indulge in this type of overt racism. In my opinion, he has lost all credibility and claims to impartiality by supporting and expressing such racist ideologies.

[Cuneiform]

Lutz:
It took some time to find out what makes me feel uncomfortable. Curtis has the strong feeling that America’s rules should be valid all over the world. There are many reasons (in history) for the fact that the U. S. has different rules (death penalty, guns, alcohol, affirmative action, compensatory damages...). Rules, which are quite alien to Europeans.

If I understand your reasoning correct, being non-racist and advocating that that should be a standard for other people too is considered cultural imperialism by you. If it is that what you are saying it is not even logical.

Germans have the right to make these little sweets, [...]

As if little pastries where less delicious if they did not replicate racial stereotypes.

[Hartmut Habe]

@Cuneiform

Well, why should any German care about such stupidity? In America someone upon realising my nationality raised his hand to a Nazi salute once. I just thought he was maleducated and pitifull and didn't bother.

But lets please talk in terms of this bakery. In the US I regularily came across figurines in Lederhosen and Bavarian garb. Had they been offered in form of a little chocolate dessert, id have bought some for my relatives at home. I am from Bavaria and very proud of these traditions.

But I absolutely understand the difference concerning African-Americans. I get all that and I think Andrew went over the top with the imitation of a black southerners voice or whatever this was supossed to be.

I still think the post has to be read in context and I doubt that this baker in DDorf is a racist. If you want to you can call him provincial. That would be the worst of it.

[Cuneiform]

Hi Mr. Habe,

You write:
If This Blog should Show you One thing it is that American culture is Not universal or even ,universaly trsnsferable because people habe different backrounds.

Sure. But a German probably has the feeling that it would not be right to be portrayed in America as a person who does not shower regularly and who doesn't own a toothbrush.

Or, as Andrew has written it was a Turkish saleswoman who served him, I believe a Turk would not want to be portrayed as reeking of garlic or caraway in Germany. (The word "Kümmeltürke" definitely exists in the German language but it must have been 15 years since I last heard it)

This German/Turk could reason this way then: "If I do not want to be depicted as an unimaginative caricature, maybe I should refrain from portraying other people in stereotypical fashion!"

I am convinced every grown-up in this time should have the mental capacity for that thought.

[Lutz]

I read Curtis comments two times. I understand his point, but I feel uncomfortable. It looks as if he wants an excuse. If so, why doesn’t he say that clearly?

It took some time to find out what makes me feel uncomfortable. Curtis has the strong feeling that America’s rules should be valid all over the world. There are many reasons (in history) for the fact that the U. S. has different rules (death penalty, guns, alcohol, affirmative action, compensatory damages...). Rules, which are quite alien to Europeans.

Germans have the right to make these little sweets, and the right drink two beers in public at the age of 16 and to dress as Indians for carnival, and to make all kind of jokes about that. (I like the one about “geometric decoration”). Can you put a swastika on a cheese cake in New York? Maybe; but not in Düsseldorf. It’s a law here!

Hartmut pointed that out: This blog is about the differences between the continents. And it is explicitly allowed to make jokes about these differences.

[Curtis]

I also dont think that the bakery is racist.

How is a Baker in DDorf suppossed to Know that This is Not how African Americans want to be depicted

Hartmut, I can readily accept that there is an element of ignorance in Germany and that the bakery did not intentionally mean to be racist. After all, Germany does not have a history of slavery and the corresponding Civil Rights Movement it necessitated.

However it is completely unacceptable for an American professor to patronize such images and to publicly denigrate black Americans with the type of language that was used to ridicule us for centuries. The bakery might not have known better, but Andrew certainly did!

Similarly, as a German professor in the U.S., German society would have been appalled had you patronized some American company that sold denigrating, racist images of Jews. Imagine the uproar if you had then used language that was degrading to Jews, to publicly express your satisfaction of said products.

Instead of educating and edifying, this blog has now descended to new lows, and as is evident from some of the comments below, now attracts the type of readership interested in perpetuating inequality. For shame!

[Hartmut Habe]

Hi Curtis,

As a German who has spent Quite a lot of time in the US I can sympathize with your sentiments. Seeing the immense discrimination that black people still face in Every aspect of American Life i shudder to imagine what it must habe been like at a Time Ehen racial depictions where still more common there. I can still vividly remember during my First.Term as lecturer at a liberal North east coast College when a very important professor seizing the opportunity to Talk openly to a white european confided to me how to figure out WHO attended a course on.ly by the grace of some sort of affirmative action or the colleges renowned Sports Programme. or to See the living conditions that only blacks where.confined to in One of the richest cities.in the world.

As a long Term Reader of Prof. Hammels blog, now Based in germany again, I am however aware that the lack of familiarity of Germans with themore superficial aspects of the figth of blacks in the US to het rid of the legacy of centuries of slavery is a recurring topic of This blog. It is never to ridicule African Americans and their concerns But to depict the difference in cultural cognition.

I also dont think that the bakery is racist. A chinese in traditional costume and a black man in his native garb. How is a Baker in DDorf suppossed to Know that This is Not how African Americans want to be depicted, when the average Immigranten to Germany from Nigeria would be Happy to find his traditions Portrait and would habe no idea that on the otherside of the globe depictions like that were used to portray the other and important in segregation. Not Evers Nigerian dresses wxclusevly in Western clothing. HE IS PROUD OF HIS Different nigerian style of dress. because he doesnt See it as something inferior.

If This Blog should Show you One thing it is that American culture is Not universal or even ,universaly trsnsferable because people habe different backrounds. Just as Germanys reluctance to crack jokes.abour the ww II is Not transferable to America. etc.

[Yosef]

Thank !I really love to read this post

[Curtis]

Why don't you send him an email and ask him, instead of casting aspersions, unfounded, that he approved of what the silly bakery did?

Casting unfounded aspersions?

I did not try to second guess Andrew's attitude or divine the contents of his mind. Rather, I have carefully based my criticisms on the words he has written. They are there for all the world to see.

Andrew isn't one to keep his mouth shut when he witnesses overt discrimination or injustice.

The contents of this blog entry does not support your claim. Not only did Andrew refer to this racist confectionery as "delectable", but he also found it necessary to delve into the type of speech that was used to denigrate black Americans for centuries. And contrary to your claim, nowhere in this blog entry did he express the slightest outrage. Indeed, there's every reason to suspect that he supported this racist depiction since according to his blog, he both purchased and consumed the product with much satisfaction.

It took America several decades to rid itself of the stereotypical "Black Sambo" images (black painted face with enlarged, red lips) and even longer for white Americans to accept that black Americans are capable of speaking English as well as anyone else (the prevailing racist theory was that Blacks were incapable of speaking proper, elegant English on account of their enlarged lips and inferior intelligence). With one stroke of the pen however, Andrew has taken us back to this awful past when he chose to use racist, denigrating language. I don't know any American, white or black, that wouldn't be horribly offended upon hearing this.

So maybe it is Andrew that needs to reach out to me, and not I to him.

[sakasiru]

I would think that these sweets are sold in the light of upcoming Fasching, a time notorious for political incorrectness. You will also see the caricature faces of politicians, inmates in black and white striped clothes, indians with feathers on their head and Transsylvanians either in ridiculous silk capes or in drag. And also one or two chinese with yellow faces, I guess. It's not to celebrate these stereotypes, but to mock them by hilariously overblowing them, and I have yet to see a black person in Germany who would be offended by this cake, since noone would take this serious around here. I'm with you if I saw such depictions in a children's book, but not as a Faschingsküchli.

[Anselmus]

Curtis,

It's based on actually knowing Andrew fairly well, although I think one could easily infer it from the majority of his posts and his links. Andrew isn't one to keep his mouth shut when he witnesses overt discrimination or injustice. He also isn't likely to picket or torch a bakery. Trust me - in this country, that simply results in various unsavory groups showing up to the bakery to protest their God-given right to free speech. Why don't you send him an email and ask him, instead of casting aspersions, unfounded, that he approved of what the silly bakery did?

By the way - the whole Nordsee issue I referred to earlier was resolved amicably by one Korean entering a Nordsee shop and telling the franchisee - politely and directly - that the poster was offensive and was likely to result in them receiving less business in future from the (largely international) Heidelberg trade. It was down the next day. Andrew already mentioned that the baker's assistant was Turkish. This mitigates far more toward "ill-informed" than it does toward overt racism. I'm not defending the baker, but - hey - there are ways, and there are Ways to deal with this. I trust Andrew picked the one that to him, suited the issue. I think Andrew is on the side of the good guys here.

[Curtis]

Also, I doubt if Andrew left the bakery without telling the baker (or more likely, the Kassenfrau) what his opinion was of the goods they had on offer.

I suppose we should all be grateful for him publicly sharing that opinion with us:

"Delectable Stereotypes

Anyway, ah done ate me one Negro and one Chinaman. They wuz dee-licious, and the Negro wuz full o' rum."

It is not an attempt at censorship or an instance of "PC gone too far" in asking people to not perpetuate ethnic stereotypes which have never been really correct in the first place (like the ridiculously blown up lips there on the picture). These depictions *really* do make people feel unwelcome (testament to this was given right here in the comments) and that is a negative thing to do unto others.

Thank you Cuneiform for hitting the nail directly on the head. I can't believe that we're still having to have this conversation in 2012!

[Anselmus]

Curtis,

I don't think the two Euros Andrew spent in the bakery will flow directly to some right wing cell in Thüringen that is immediately responsible for acts of violence. More likely: the money spent is going toward the baker's daughter's education which will certainly teach her that such caricatures are disgraceful and will ultimately lead to a horrible schism in the family and the daughter studying sociology and becoming elected to the ASTA of some progressive university. It's all good.

Also, I doubt if Andrew left the bakery without telling the baker (or more likely, the Kassenfrau) what his opinion was of the goods they had on offer. We already know from Andrew's blog that he strongly supports small independent retailers in his neighborhood. My guess is that he rather directly but courteously indicated to the proprietor that what was in the window was entirely inappropriate and that the baker should perhaps reconsider his choices of motif if he is hoping for further support on the part of the yuppified denizens of Oberbilk.

Speaking of which, a much more target-rich environment is found at the Kiosk down the street from him at the next major crossing, which prominently offers Landser magazines. I think they even have a special deal there on Frühstück für Langzeitarbeitslose über 50 - Dosenpils, Bockwurst and Lander for 4 Euro.

[Cuneiform]

Negro - Black - Coloured - African American - new words every 20 years? I learned that African American is not a proper term any more, because somebody with ancestors from Oranje-Vrijstaat or Cyrenaica might feel offended. Wonder what will be the next PC term.

It is not an attempt at censorship or an instance of "PC gone too far" in asking people to not perpetuate ethnic stereotypes which have never been really correct in the first place (like the ridiculously blown up lips there on the picture). These depictions *really* do make people feel unwelcome (testament to this was given right here in the comments) and that is a negative thing to do unto others.

[Daniel Milstein]

Good Share.I hope more people discover your blog because you really know what you're talking about. Can't wait to read more from you!

[Thomas]

@Curtis:
"I wonder how you would feel if some American company made money by perpetuating the worst stereotypes about Germans as Nazis"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what they are doing...

[ugg boots sale]

Wow!! I can’t believe it took me so long to find you! THANKYOU!

[Lutz]

Negro - Black - Coloured - African American - new words every 20 years? I learned that African American is not a proper term any more, because somebody with ancestors from Oranje-Vrijstaat or Cyrenaica might feel offended. Wonder what will be the next PC term. They say “African American” is more polite, it does not offend others. However, aren’t these new terms expressions of helplessness?

Another example: It has become custom to send invitations to somebody you know and his unknown partner saying “you and your significant other”. Is that polite? Isn’t it rather disrespect? I have not seen a translation of “significant other”, but I am looking forward to it. What is there against the old-fashioned idea of asking a person you like to have at your party about his relationship? And then invite a husband, a friend, a mate or whatever. A genuine interest cannot be impolite.

In fact, PC has never arrived in Germany. Negerkuss is just a very dumb example for that. You can make people laugh out loud using words like “Seniorenresidenz” oder “Entsorgungspark” frequently. German like to call a spade a spade, and eine Müllkippe ist eine Müllkippe, und ein Altenheim ist ein Altenheim und in Dortmund ist ein Schwatter ein Schwatter (and that is not an insult at all).

[onchyophaga]

The confectionary on the left reminds me much more of this (the older Germans among us might still remember having seen one of these in their local chuch):

"In einer Kapelle in meiner früheren Gemeinde stand noch von alten Zeiten ein Missionsneger, eine Holzfigur von etwa 20 cm Größe. Auf seinem Bauch war eine Plakette mit einem Spruch; sinngemäß, daß er früher ein armes Heidenkind gewesen sei und in Finsternis gelebt habe, aber dank der Mission nun das Licht des Evangeliums erblickt und zu Jesus Christus gekommen sei. In seiner Brust befand sich ein Schlitz, um Geld hinein zu tun. Fiel nun die Münze auf eine Feder, dann nickte der Missionsneger dankend seinem Spender zu. Für die Kinder war es jedesmal ein Gaudi, diesen Missionsneger nicken zu lassen."

So, even though Germany might not look back on years of "institutional ethnic slavery", there were still those who ..

"... vor etwa 100 Jahren diesen Missionsneger in die Kapelle gestellt haben. Damals war die Blütezeit des deutschen Kolonialismus. Auch Deutschland wollte einen Platz auf der Weltkarte einnehmen. Wie bei den anderen Kolonialmächten waren die Missionsgesellschaften mit ihren Missionsschulen, Missionskrankenhäusern und anderen Einrichtungen eine nützliche Hilfe, um in den neuen Kolonien eine Infrastruktur aufzubauen. Und im Gleichschritt mit Kaiser Wilhelms Kolonialsoldaten marschierten auch die Missionare mit, um den armen Heidenkindern das Licht des Evangeliums zu bringen."

Who lives in the Rhineland can have a look here:
http://www.vemission.org/museumarchive/ausstellungen.html

[Curtis]

I think the phrase "previous coverage of German ethnic insensitivity here" makes it pretty clear what Andrew thinks of this.

I disagree. His blog entry clearly stated that he patronized this bakery and even enjoyed purchasing and consuming their racist goods.

He then went above and beyond supporting this bakery by resorting to old stereotypes that were used for decades to denigrate black Americans:

"ah done ate me one Negro and one Chinaman. They wuz dee-licious, and the Negro wuz full o' rum"

Shameful to the core! I never imagined that this blog would resort to such hurtful language!

[Anselmus]

Curtis,

I think the phrase "previous coverage of German ethnic insensitivity here" makes it pretty clear what Andrew thinks of this.

Let's not fly off the handle and be happy that Germany has, actually, come far enough such that the vast majority of Germans would recognize these confections as gross and unpalatable (sorry, pun intended) stereotypes. The bakery exists in a backward universe, and my guess is that most Germans would regard these items as the relics of a provincial Hauptschule circa 1982 mindset that they are.

15 years ago the national chain Nordsee ran an ad campaign for "Chinawoche" featuring pictures of adorable German children pulling their eyes to make them look slanted. I'm lighting up a Virginia Slim right now and saying, as long as that is a local baker's idea of cleverness and not a mainstream corporation, then "you've come a long way, baby". Not all the way, but pretty far in that timeframe.

[Curtis]

Curtis, my man, please don't be a stiff

No, I will not let up. It's easier for me to overlook this type of nonsense when written by Europeans because they did not have the same history of slavery and oppression that existed in the U.S. But there's simply no excuse, absolutely NONE, for an American to be indulging in this type of slackness, much less patronize a business that perpetuates the same. As Americans, we have an automatic knee-jerk reaction to racial discrimination - it's built in to our upbringing, culture and laws.

Professor Hammel would have never written such a blog entry were he attached to some American university. Else that university would have been burned to the ground.

[M. Möhling]

@Curtis

> the tremendous work Germany has done over
> the past 60 years to come to terms with
> and learn from their history

Saw "Jud Süss" some time ago. You need permission to do so, only trusted entities are allowed to show it. So I went to Berlin's Palais am Festungsgraben for a special screening. Afterwards the presenter, a former GDR theatre actress warned us to "be vigilant" about neo-Nazis. She decried the rise of neo-Nazism in the east of Germany, which she just couldn't explain to herself, as there had been positively none in the GDR. There are some who quite beg to differ, but then she never got jailed in Hohenschönhausen a was Vera Lengsfeld.

Anyway, Nazis are bad, fair enough, but I asked her about Valley of the Wolves, too, a Turkish movie depicting Jew boys scavenging live Muslims for spare parts and other fun stuff. No special screening required. It was all the rage in the vibrant quarters of town at the time, with chants of "Allah" whenever Jews or US-boys got what they deserved. It was quite some news with all the papers for weeks, most condemning it as was required, with the exception of, say, national-Bolshevist "Junge Welt", which liked it quite a bit. Shouldn't we be wary of that, too? The good lady was quite pissed--we were on shouting terms when it was over. She claimed to have never even heard of the movie, besides, as she told, there had never ever been an anti-Semitic remark when Muslim school classes visited for political education, duh! The rest of the audience fumed, too, I was judged unanimously to be an outright asshole, as I was told later by someone who had stayed behind. It was the beginning of a special education for me, as I learned that almost all those noble souls involved in "Aufarbeitung" and Jewish-German Dialogue take a particular pride in being utterly concerned for the dear kind of Jews that are dead already, only to be able to take some liberties against the living, for which they have found a wealth of most elegant and intricate phrasing. And a new ally. GWW: Persilschein, selbstausgestellt. GWW2: Sündenstolz.

[Harvey Morrell]

Ever wonder why the half chocolate, half vanilla cookies are called "Amerikaner?"

[M. Möhling]

Curtis, my man, please don't be a stiff. And yes, ze German readers did get the subtext. Yet don't despair, as presently we're spending one third of our GDP to feed this Ministry's many hungry mouths. "Labour and Social Affairs" it's called, and there's not much "Labour" left in that. I don't know how many seven-figure sums get fed into the anti-racism funnels, but many good people get their paws filled to fight crude confectionery, so all's well. Andrew walks on the right side here, too, even if that escapes you, but he's at least being funny when preaching the gospel. Presumably because he doesn't get paid for it.

> The woman who served me was, by the way, Turkish
Talked to a dark skinned Brazilian the other day, she wasn't too hot about how she was treated by my Turkish neighbors. They seem to be severely lacking sensitivity sometimes. As the repressive majority gives them the ojo brujo all the time, they're excused, of course.

[Curtis]

As a black American, I don't find any of these depictions acceptable. Shame on you Andrew for patronizing this business and supporting this type of stereotype on your blog. I always thought the purpose of this blog was to educate and edify - perhaps I was mistaken.

ah done ate me one Negro and one Chinaman. They wuz dee-licious, and the Negro wuz full o' rum.

Your German readers might not get the subtext here, but any American would, as I clearly do! Shame on you!

And for all you Germans, I wonder how you would feel if some American company made money by perpetuating the worst stereotypes about Germans as Nazis, especially in light of the tremendous work Germany has done over the past 60 years to come to terms with and learn from their history. Even though I'm not German, I still feel a responsibility to dress-down any American that spouts anti-German/Austrian stereotypes.

[Ali Gündüz]

The Berlin subway stations are filled with these posters nowadays:
http://i.imgur.com/3t3T0.jpg

[Marcellina]

with geometric decorations (no, not swastikas)

OK that made me laugh out loud.

[Thomas]

Neither is "Negro", as far as my admittedly limited understanding of American culture goes.

On topic, re "German ethnic insensitivity": I'd rather think that the sensitivity is differently orientated, or, to use the tvtropes wording, the acceptable targets are different.
Germany did not have a culture of institutional ethnic slavery, so there is no reason of "white guilt" towards blacks.
Germans on the other hand tend to feel rather irritated about American Jewish jokes, or referring to German Turks as "Euro-Guidos".

[John Carter Wood]

They look yummy.

Also, Dude, chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature.