« Tuesday Music Blogging: A Canoa Virou | Main | Wednesday Music Blogging: Fu Schnickens »

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d834516a2569e20133f3eff58a970b

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Germany Still Under OECD Average in College Grads:

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Norbert

Excuse? Who the F needs an excuse and why? Explanation would be closer to the point.

BTW, consider this: Bavaria, the German state with the highest GDP (if you don't count citystates like Hamburg) has by far the lowest rate of Abiturienten, around 24%. I.e. the other 66% are not eligible for college education. Yet, Bavaria manages to be the most successful Land of all, with an unemployment rate of currently 3.8%. What's the secret?

Andrew

There's always a lot of talk about what sorts of German training programs do and don't count for purposes of OECD statistics. However, nobody has ever provided any actual proof that these statistics aren't comparable. The OECD certainly thinks they are.

So for now, I consider this an urban legend.

Specifically, I'm looking for proof that the OECD doesn't count German forms of academic training that should count as tertiary education. Extra bonus if you can also prove the comparable programs in other countries are counted. Until I actually see some reasoned argument, I'm not inclined to accept this excuse.

onchyophaga

@norbert and @michael

As much as I heard until now, our "Fachhochschulabschlüsse" aren't counted as Universitätsbildung by the OECD anyway.
Would be interesting, what any engineer (civil or other) actually working for them thinks about that ..

M. Möhling

btw: where are those hairdressers, chimney sweeps, butchers, or machinists that coulda been contenders, when I'm around? Do I dumb them down? Does Andrews' sheer presence lift both their spirits and IQ? Are his glasses rosé, while mine are bifocal? No glasses? It's a gift? Now we're getting somewhere...

M. Möhling

> I'm consistently surprised to meet Germans who
> could have gone to college but didn't, and instead
> decided to become hairdressers, chimney sweeps,
> butchers, or machinists

I'm consistently surprised to meet Germans who could have gone to college and did, to become social or cultural scientists and psychologists. Critical Whiteness studies, anyone? Feministische Naturwissenschaftskritik? Don't the chimney sweeps need assistants? Heck, those plumbers always need a helping hand.

Thomas

Bafög is really puzzling: the system is highly complex, and even the highest possible allowance still leaves you struggling.

Making access to Bafög easier and increasing the payments to a level where students could actually concentrate on studying, instead of scraping together money to pay the rend, seems an obvious way to increase college "output".

Other countries even have more or less generous scholarships to help students, but that would be more expensive, of course...

Michael

The German "Meister" qualification for a master craftsman is equivalent to a University of Applied Sciences ("Fachhochschulabschluss"), but the OECD does not care about this fact.

Norbert

It's been mentioned on these pages before that the OECD figures don't take into account the Berufsausbildung (vocational training). The OECD itself knows this and they actually praise the German vocational training system.

In the UK, e.g. midwifery is taught at college/universities and goes into the above-mentioned statistics. In Germany it is taught at Berufsschule and therefore does not go into the statistics.

It would be interesting to see the aligned results of the statistics taking into account this difference.

Raphael

"a well-regulated system of affordable student loans"

Hahaha. The whole point of student loans is to be unaffordable, so that ever-larger parts of the middle class already start out in life with hopeless amounts of debt.

"the problem would remaind that lots of young Germans are reluctant to face what students in most other countries have long accepted: college costs money, and that means debt."

No, the problem is that the elites have decided that this should be so in order to create the aforementioned high numbers of already hopelessly indebted young professionals. (Not just the debt-maximizing system of financing education, but the habit of asking for academic degrees before hiring people for jobs that people learned on the job sixty years ago, too. And without that habit, low numbers of graduates would probably be a lot less of a problem, too.)

The comments to this entry are closed.

Books I've written or translated

List
www.flickr.com
Andrew Hammel's items Go to Andrew Hammel's photostream
My Photo

Search German Joys

  • Google

    andrewhammel.typepad.com