Could There Be a Eurobama?

Over at the New York Times, Steven Erlanger rounds up reaction to the Obama victory among Europe's minorities:

It is risky to make racial comparisons between America and Europe, given all the historical and cultural differences. But race had long been one reason that Europeans, harking back to the days when famous American blacks like Josephine Baker and James Baldwin found solace in France, looked down on the United States, even as Europe developed postcolonial racial problems of its own.

“They always said, ‘You think race relations are bad here in France, check out the U.S.,’ ” said Mohamed Hamidi, former editor of the Bondy Blog, founded after the 2005 riots in the heavily immigrant suburbs of Paris.

“But that argument can no longer stand,” he said.

***

In Britain, too, there was skepticism. Trevor Phillips, the black chairman of the independent Equality and Human Rights Commission, said that the political system held immigrants back. “If Barack Obama had lived here, I would be very surprised if even somebody as brilliant as him would have been able to break through the institutional stranglehold that there is on power,” he told The Times of London.

Britain has several minority ministers below cabinet rank, but just 15 nonwhites in the 646-member House of Commons. The parliamentary system makes it harder for a young person or an outsider to emerge.

***

Germany is yet a different case, with its largest immigrant population invited from Turkey to work in West German factories in the 1960s and 1970s. Germany now has some 2.9 million inhabitants of Turkish background, 800,000 of them with German citizenship under new laws. But they have little political representation in the unified Germany of 82 million, with just 5 members of the 613-seat Bundestag....

“Germans can’t believe a Turkish politician believes in a politics for Germany,” said Mely Kiyak, 32, a German-born daughter of Turkish parents who wrote a book, “Ten for Germany,” about the problems of ethnic Turkish politicians. “The Germans think, ‘This is our country. Why should we elect a Turk? He might want to Islamicize the country.”‘

The Germans love Mr. Obama, she said, “but we don’t have minorities anywhere, not in media, in politics, in the executive or the judiciary.”

Comments

[Ligia]

Well.. if you see that black people (in general, i´m not talking about the Obamas because Barack is from the first generation outside Kenya) were brought to america about 4 centuires ago, the germans may have a point. I can´t see an afro-american, afro-cuban or afro-brazilian defending the interests of Africa as a politician in their place of birth, because they are soo far away from their "roots" and have always lived in melting pot. The same way to the japanese descendants in South America (anyone remember seeing Alberto Fujimori doing pro-Japan politics in Peru?).After a century, they´ve overcome the huge cultural differences between latin americans and japanese. So, for a place like germany, with such a short story as immigration coutry and a burden like the Nationalsozialismus, having a politician that represents people that have just 40 years of history in teutonic ground (what´s 40 years for Europe, guys? nothing!) is still not so "confortable".

To sum up: as many people in the world germans may think "Kommt Zeit, Kommt Rat"

[Peter Haney]

After such a war as they fought and lost, Germans will always have identiy problems. Their confusion over who they are after Hitler should not be burdened with looking at Turks claiming to be German.

[Norbert]

Mr Obama's main message was that the huge problems the USA are facing can only be addressed by a unified nation, not by a divided country. His biography and skin colour actually helped him to renew the common believe that everyone in the US shares the same hopes and dreams.

Does Germany see itself as divided and disintegrated?
Do the Germans share the same dreams and hopes?
Do the Germans have a tradition of commemorating their common interests, do they speak of themselves as "one nation"?
Could any German politician benefit from incarnating the common hopes and dreams?

I'd say: No, no, no and no.

For some time there were three major parties you could vote for. Then there were four. Now there are five.
There's space for a ethnic Turkish politician in every party, there's even space for a moderate islamic party in the future. But there's no space for any politician representing the common German hopes or dreams - Turkish or not, coloured or not. Because there is no such thing as "the German hopes and dreams".

Germans are all about rules because that's the only thing they have in common. As long as the rules are obeyed they don't see themselves as disintegrated.
That makes it more difficult to integrate minorities (the only thing to identify with is football). On the other hand that makes it easier to strengthen the rights of minorities, eg gay marriage. It's easier to adapt some rules than to renew the dreams and hopes of a nation.

[Don]

James,

Just so....

[James Rytting]

As for Don,

Well, I've come from Eurobama
With A Bouzouki on my knee
Oh, Dervlana don't you cry for me...

[James Rytting]

I provided the definitive answer to this some time ago; once again, it depends on the strength of the social democratic institutions and electoral base, or, at least, the latter's temporary arousal. The demographics of the U.S. election are fascinating, and not just because they confirm my piercing insight. New England, which is whiter than Bavaria, even whiter than the intermountain west, voted overwhelmingly for Mr. Obama. Vermont led the way with nearly two thirds of its electorate pulling the lever for him. That's not because Vermonters have spent more time in group encounters, or in lonesome meditation, confronting their inner racism.

Now it may be easier in the U.S. for a minority candidate to rise through the political ranks from city counsel or mayor to state representative, to U.S. Congress, and so become a viable candidate for the highest office. But folks, look, that's because the U.S. is racially segregated!

[Don]

There certainly COULD be a Eurobama. Should Bretagne somday elect to secede from France and petition to join the US as the 51st state I submit that 'Eurobama' would be a perfect name for the new state. Or Galacia, Wales, or possibly even Sicily.

[Detlef]

Just wanted to add this slightly different opinion to that NYT article.

[Véronique]

Well, it says here (http://www.stern.de/unterhaltung/buecher/:Obama-Bravo-Deutschlands-Posterboy/645262.html) that Bravo will never offer a poster of a German politician: I guess that answers the question for Germany.

[Jeffrey -- New York]

Slightly OT. Has anyone noticed that the German obsession with separating their garbage (waste products) resonates with the place of the Flachspueler (shelf toilet) in German culture? Only this is much better because under the cover of green environmentalism Germans can actually TOUCH their own waste without shame and then ORGANIZE where it goes. It's really a dream come true for Germans, don't you think?

I'm with Germans on this. Any new religion (environemntalism) that allows you to touch your own shit is tops in my book.

I don't think this has anything to do with Turks. Does it?

*

[Dagobert]

Just to further my point. Do you remember the several articles in the American press claiming that woman in Germany are terribly misrepresented. I think you posted something about it here and there was reporting on the English website of der spiegel. Well have a look where Germany stands in the tables. Not quite that bad then after all.... http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,589955,00.html

[Dagobert]

Represesantation of Turks in Germany is allright... Of the 2.9 Million Turks in Germany only 800000 have German citizenships. These 800000 mostly are very young because only the ones born in Germany in the last years took citizenship, the others would rather eat pork than take on German citizenship and the reasons why they don't want German citizenship are mostly very racist as well. So that makes 800000 of 80 Million with the cauion that a far higher percentage of those 800000 are below voting age than of the 80 Million senile Germans. That constitutes less than one percent of the electorate. Which in a ideal Bundestag would make 5.98 or less turkish MPs. Weve got 5 at the moment! Women who only have got 30 percent are less well represented. This whole slamming Germany for being racist in my opinion is based on prejudice of Nazis and the Master-Race. Keep in mind please, to be a politican and get elected in Germany you have to spend years in a party and normally should have studied law. If I look at the young liberals here and the law school students and representatives in local government there will very soon be more turkish representatives on every level, mark my words. And now get this: All without affirmative action, without hypocritically claiming all the time that one is a multicultural society although divisions still ran very deep and without following the OECD on their patronising educational studies that value a education only in terms of an economist. That would be something the turks could really be proud of without always having to think " I only got into this position because im black...."

[Jeffrey -- New York]

Oh, let me summarize. I don't think there should be a minority candidate in Germany because I think that the minorities in Germany, the few that are there, ought to be kindly asked to leave within six months or a year. You might want to hand them a small stack of Euros and a couple soccer balls from their favorite German teams to take back to Istanbul with them. I mean, head them out the door with class.

Better for everyone, don't you think? Germans won't have to be confused when a Turk tells him that he is a German. As that TV Robot from long ago used to say, "Does not compute."

*

[Jeffrey -- New York]

Andrew, thanks for following up on this issue that I broached a few posts back here.

Okay, I'll bite. Here's my take. Hold on tight, folks. Immigration is central to the identity of Americans; in Germany it is not. Germans still view identity as an "jus sanguinis" issue. Turks don't have the right blood and never will. I think most Turks should be asked to relocate back to Turkey and leave Germany to the Germans. They were invited in as "guest workers," but they have now overstayed their welcome. Time to go back. I know that sounds harsh, but while living in Berlin with its "Turkei raus" graffiti, I recall thinking that I'd hate to be a Turk if the shite ever hits the fan again in Germany. Turks would be the next perfect scapegoat.

Germany should allow tourists and occasional short-time workers into their country, but Germans really need their own breathing space where they can grumble amongst themselves about whatever they want. Foreigners in Germany are an irritant; their presence does no one any good.

At the same time, we should ask the enlightened German women of Prenzlauerberg to have a few extra Hermanns to keep the workforce stocked.

*

[Don]

Alexandra, a Muslim might have a chance, but in the future. This year is still too close to 9-11.

One of the big deals was that Kennedy was a Catholic. Anti-Catholic predjudice was great enough in the past to make electing a Catholic President unthinkable. The first Catholic nominee was Al Smith in 1928, and he lost a landslide. 32 years later Kennedy won.

Ok, how about a member of a small minority like a Muslim or a Jew? Well, Joe Leiberman is an observant Jew and he was nominated for Vice President in 2000. Had Gore won that year it's distinctly possible Leiberman would be the president-elect now.

I think for Muslms or Jews it's important that they be perceived as sufficiently secular. There is no way a Wahabi could be elected to any office higher than the House in the US as things currently stand, although there are a few Muslims in the House. But a member of a more peaceful part of the Muslim faith like a Sufi or a Dervish - I could see it. He'd have to have a lot of skills to make it to the top of the greasy pole, however.

[Don]

Not quite right, 'Merlin'. In close elections every factor makes a difference, including race and ethnic background. Kerry was a Boston Brahmin, which probably weighed against him. Obama is half-African, half Midwestern caucasian, which almost certainly weighed - for him.

There are very few open racists left in the US, and only a few more who are willing to admit it even to themselves. Two years go I saw him as a future president, but in 2016 or 2020, not in 2008. The Democratic primaries are in part identity politics, and it's extremely unlikely a caucasian Obama would have beaten Hilary Clinton in the primaries this year. He would have been her national choice for Veep.

I think Obama's race was somewhat less important in the general election, but possibly enough to help tip the election his way. I know it made a difference in my own thinking because I thought electing a qualified Afro-American President would be a big positive on the symbolic level, but only if he was qualified to do the job.

[Merlin]

I think the question of whether European countries would elect a minority president is sort of beside the point, since Obama's ethnicity had no relevant impact on American voters' decisions or European observers' preferences. If Kerry had been black or Obama had been white, I believe the last two elections would still have turned out the same way.

A posteriori, of course, Obama's race made the victory historic, but he was primarily elected for his talent and promise of change. I therefore don't see anything barring Europeans from also electing a minority candidate *who manages to channel people's hope in the way Obama did*.

I'll grant that a certain, albeit low, threshold of prejudice probably exists on both sides of the Atlantic, which forces minority candidates to truly excel in order to advance in careers that white candidates can pursue despite even mediocre skills. Since Bush's recent abysmal popularity boosted any candidate offering a credible agenda of change, that threshold was easier to overcome for an otherwise unlikely candidate this time.

I guess that in the foreseeable future, Germans are unlikely to elect a chancellor representing significant change (whether in ethnicity or agenda), because Germans don't seem to feel such a strong urge for a radically new approach to politics, and because I'm unaware of any outstanding candidate waiting in the wings who could bring such change about.

[Alexandra]

Sorry for the spamming (an edit-funtionality is really missing here), but I found the mentioned http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/0,1518,554163,00.html>article.

[Alexandra]

P.S. But it's true that people from Turkish descent are discriminated here. http://www.wiwi-treff.de/home/lounge/read.php?ukatid=14&f=28&i=80423&t=80355>This made me especially furious. (There was also an article in "Der Spiegel" some time ago that Turkish-descendent graduates have more difficulties to find a job here than German ones even if their grades are significantly better, and many chose to go back to Turkey or emigrate to another country, but I cannot find it online.)

I mean, this is idiocy at its best: We pay for the expensive University education of these people, and instead of being glad to have some well-trained, smart, and well-integrated immigrants here that can fill the engineering jobs for which people are so desperately needed, we drive them away.

Good job, Germany :(

[Alexandra]

This is our country. Why should we elect a Turk? He might want to Islamicize the country.

Would a Muslim have had a chance in the US?